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snurri ([personal profile] snurri) wrote2007-07-09 03:11 pm

In Which I Have Posting Anxiety

Up until about 3rd grade I'm pretty sure I was incapable of being embarrassed. It's not that I was shameless, except in the literal sense; I didn't really have much concept of shame or its causes. I understood it as something connected to misbehavior, of course--I came from a Catholic family and went to Catholic school until 4th grade. There's nothing like a Catholic parent to make you feel like poor table manners will land you in hell.

The specifics of that first episode are uninteresting, but they were related to school, and this led to an association that lingers to this day; in my head, being mistaken was something to be ashamed of and to hide. It became very important to know all the answers, or at least more of them than everyone else. I don't know that I enjoyed learning back then. Mostly it was a way of controlling my environment just a little bit, of staving off that shame and embarrassment. When other kids flubbed answers in class, I cringed for the mortification they must feel. When it was clear that most of them didn't, I was bewildered. I was further bewildered when I tried to map my right answer/wrong answer thesis onto non-classroom time. On the playground or in the lunchroom, there didn't seem to be any right answers, or at least, there were exponentially more wrong ones. I got very tired of being wrong all the time. Eventually, I scaled back my interaction with most of the other kids to the bare minimum. It didn't help. Unless you're invisible there'll always be someone to call you out and tease you for being quiet and minding your business. I always reacted to it badly, and for that I got teased and called names.

By junior high I was an insomniac. I would lie in bed at night reviewing all the social missteps I'd committed that day, and construct scenarios for more potential embarrassments on the day following. As neurotic as I am now, the thirteen-year-old me was a time bomb.

This one of my theories as to how I became shy.

It's probably wrong. Like so many things, the real story is probably not what happened, but how I reacted to it. But until just a few years ago, I burned a lot of energy on that kind of self-analysis, because I believed there was something deeply wrong with me.

Clearly I was and am an introvert; groups of people, even people I love, tire me out. Put me in a room with one person I'm comfortable with and I'm perfectly content to talk deeply for hours, but people I don't know at all can be daunting to the point of paralysis. Women with whom I feel a certain level of romantic awkwardness can cause me to mumble, giggle nervously, and flee, not always in that order. (Wikipedia has an entry for something called Love-shyness, which is intriguing, depressing and suspect in equal measure. My own case isn't so severe as those described there, but some of it resonates.)

I deal with some social situations by never going near them. I avoid parties where I'm only going to know a couple of people. Invited out by people I don't know well, I make excuses. I protect myself by not stepping into situations where I'm going to feel out of control. I fear that all of this results in my seeming, at least at times, either mentally ill or snobbish or both.

All of which is problematic, but my believing it was something that needed fixing was even more so. I'd force myself into parties and other situations, visualizing a more relaxed, more confident Dave. What usually manifested was a sloppy drunk Dave. Instead of the witty and entertaining self I'd hope to conjure, I got a spectacular goof who sometimes didn't remember all of his shenanigans the next day. Now I can see this as an attempt at seizing control of otherwise overwhelming social situations. As a corollary, I also have a history of acting over-the-top weird while completely sober; while this might seem counter-intuitive for a shy person, in fact it's a quick and dirty way of setting the terms of your interactions, because everyone is forced to react to you, to give up a certain amount of space. When you're the most annoying person in the room (and even if you manage to be the most entertaining) it's unlikely that anyone's going to make a big effort to burst that intimacy bubble.

I confess that I still catch myself doing those things from time to time. Less so, though, because of something so simple it's banal. A few years ago I took the Myers-Briggs personality test online, and found myself classified as INFP. (I get that same result every time I take the test.) The "I" stands for Introverted, and in reading the description of the classification I not only recognized myself, I saw myself described independent of value judgments. Introverted and Shy were, in my mind, equivalent to Dork and Spaz, two of the many words I'd come to hate having attached to myself. Extroverted wasn't just the desirable state, it was the default state. But somehow, seeing that I was classifiable gave me permission to exist as I was. I'm not speaking to the scientific validity or usefulness of the test; I don't know a thing about that. Again, I'm talking about my reactions. In this case, my reaction was relief, and the feeling that the burden of fixing myself had fallen away. It was OK for me not to go to parties if I didn't feel like it. It was OK for me to spend the evening talking to my friends rather than stumbling over awkward introductions to people I was never going to see again.

Not that I'm always convinced there isn't something just wrong with me, even still. I've taken Paxil, partly for panic attacks but also for social anxiety and depression. It helped with all of those things, and sometimes I wonder if I should be on something like that all the time. (It's not an option right now, just to forestall those suggestions.) Maybe my shyness is more severe than some; maybe it's not.

The shitty paradox of being shy is that it doesn't mean I don't need social interaction. It's just that I need it in a different way, and it can be difficult to ask for it, or explain it. Especially to extroverts. Y'all outnumber us by quite a bit, and sometimes you can be a bit impatient with us. It's not easy for me to explain myself to someone who gets a charge out of going out and meet new people, to say that few prospects are more daunting to me. I have plenty of friends who are extroverts, and I love them dearly. Some of them get this stuff, or at least some of it, but I don't think it comes easily. And then some extroverts (not my friends) get it all too well. They treat shy people as prey; they give them the attention they need but cannot ask for, and then take advantage of them in various ways. I suspect that most shy folks have found themselves in this sort of situation at least once--a new friend or romantic partner, with all the qualities that you feel that you yourself lack, and yet who recognizes your specialness. At least until they get what they want from you, and leave you feeling foolish and worthless because you didn't see it coming. It's a hard lesson that only reinforces the introvert's tendency to withdraw and avoid.

It's difficult, too, to say something to an extrovert like "I'm lonely," because, aside from the vulnerability of a statement like that, it's something that invites prescription. "You should go out more!" "Call my friend who lives near you!" Those suggestions may be well-meant, but they come across as frustration, as suggestions that the person is lonely because they're doing something wrong. Sometimes, granted, the problem is in the phrasing of it. But sometimes I wish I could say something like that without feeling like I'm going to be perceived as whining. "I've been feeling a little bit lonely, but I want to make it clear that I am not suggesting that my loneliness is your problem, or something for which I am seeking a plan of attack. I'm simply stating this fact. You may go about your business."

Honestly, though, the vast majority of the time I do not envy extroverts. That way of interacting with people wears me out just thinking about it; I'm simply not wired for it, and if I was I'd be a different person. I feel like, too, spending time with myself is one really important way of giving myself headspace to write and create. I'm usually too tired and jumbled up after lots of socializing to be very productive.

There's something related to that, too, which seems odd to me: I'm not usually shy about my writing. I'm pretty comfortable giving readings, for instance, or talking to people about it. I'm guessing that this is because I've already set the terms for interaction, in a way, by putting the words together. Maybe this is similar to acting like a goofball in a crowded room, and I'm unconsciously using words to create distance; or maybe it's the opposite, that in the back of my mind I feel that fiction creates familiarity. I do still consider sharing my stories to be a somewhat intimate act, although clearly the hope is that many more folks than I actually know will read it. But of course writing, too, is tied up in issues of control for me; stories are the one part of my life where I have total control. And yet, unlike that 9-year-old me, I don't really want to know all the answers about my stories. I'm more interested in asking questions, nowadays.

I'm still dealing with all of this, but most of the time my life is good. I love my friends, and WisCon, the most social weekend of my year, is also my favorite. I have occasional exclamation points of socialization, and I spend a lot of the rest of my time alone, which is good. (I'm not saying there isn't space for someone else in at least some of that alone time, but the need isn't desperate.) I'm bad at letting people know when I need them, but I'm working on it.

Oh, and I no longer think that poor table manners will land me in hell.

But it's funny--even posting this makes me feel awkward. Note my retreat into formal language for most of this post. I'm not trying to speak for other shy people, or even to claim that I understand my own shyness. This is not a lament or a cry for help. But it's something that's been on my mind a lot lately, about being an introvert in an extroverted world, and how good I was (and still am) at echoing the negativity about introversion I got from that world, and even generating my own. I'd like to quit doing that.

I'd be curious to hear from other shy folks (and everyone else), whether any of this maps onto your own experiences, or not.

[identity profile] the-flea-king.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I can't decide if I am shy or not. I am not super-extroverted, but I am not as bad off as you sound like you can be at times. I have tremendous social anxiety around people I like, and often find it hard to talk to them if I don't know them. Once I know them, I become much more relaxed. Still, that barrier of anxiety makes it really hard for me to meet new people unless I can come up with a rock-solid reason to talk to them.

I guess I don't have much to say to you other than, you have my sympathies, and if we were anywhere near one another, I would hang out with you.
used_songs: (elephant)

[personal profile] used_songs 2007-07-09 08:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm extremely shy with people I don't know well and in large groups. What I usually do is avoid situations like that when I can. I know exactly what you mean about school and having to be right. Even today, I plot out vast scenarios ahead of time when I know I'm going into an unfamiliar social setting. I plan out what I will say and do for any number of variables. That way I feel like I have some control in the situation. I think that's why I'm actually pretty confident when it comes to giving presentations and teaching - I'm in control of the situation, so I'm okay.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I wasn't looking for sympathy; but I appreciate the sentiment. One of these days we will hang, at a con or somewhere . . .

[identity profile] stephanieburgis.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for posting this. I recognized so much as I read it - shyness has been a major problem for me since I was a kid, and one of the achievements I've been most proud of as an adult is the sheer ability to speak voluntarily to strangers at all, which I couldn't manage as a teenager, even to the extent of phoning up for a pizza to be delivered. I love hanging out with friends in small groups, I love talking one on one, and I hate being alone for too much of my life...but I hate, hate, hate large parties and too-large groups of people, which has created problems for me at various points in my life. In both undergrad and grad school (different universities, different social groups), I was warned by acquaintances that other people in my department perceived me as being unfriendly and stand-offish specifically because I didn't go to the big drinking parties that went on every week (and which made me desperately uncomfortable and miserable whenever I did try to attend); even at Clarion (where I did get along with absolutely everybody and made some really wonderful friendships), I had someone take me aside to say very firmly that I really needed to spend more time with the whole group at once, or else people would think badly of me and asssume I didn't want to be a good group member.

Anyway, not posting to vent too much...just to say, it meant a lot for me to read this entry, and I'm so glad that you wrote it.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. Exactly, to all of that; the avoidance, the needing to be prepared, the control.

I wonder if extroversion doesn't also involve strategies of control, just ones that I don't understand very well.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, man, I used to have HUGE phone anxiety. I'd forgotten that.

Those kind of "warnings" -- probably they were meant as friendly advice, I guess -- are exactly what I mean about some extroverts not getting it. That's just destructive talk.

Thanks for the kind words, and I'm glad the entry meant something to you.

[identity profile] coalescent.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)
When I do the Myers-Briggs test, I come out pretty much smack-bang on the line between I and E. It sounds about right. I need recharge time, but I do also like meeting people. The catch is, I'm not very good at meeting people unless I have, as you say, a good reason to talk to them. (e.g. the Strange Horizons gig helped me out a lot at Wiscon. This is also why I went around with a copy of Twenty Epics for people to sign ...)

[identity profile] rsheslin.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Me, I'm pretty much a classic ENFP (although the E and I seem more interchangeable nowadays.) My issues with Being Wrong stemmed from having parents who, although well-meaning, were young and inexperienced, and because I was so intuitive, they assumed that I knew things far beyond my actual understanding.

Therefore, I learned that I was Supposed To Know Everything, and if I didn't know it, bluffing my way through was far preferable to admitting that I didn't know or, heaven forbid, asking someone else. Of course, this then lead to the constant fear that I would be Found Out -- over all, it was very exhausting.

I think the reason that I'm less E than I used to be is because I've become more attuned to other people as human beings, rather than audience (which I did to a certain extent in my teens and 20s). I've also become embarrassed at how my past need to Intuit and Assume led to my inadvertently running roughshod over others, and I'm far more sensitive to how my actions affect other people now. My current leaning towards introversion is a fear of putting my foot in it and hurting other people; I'd rather stay in my shell and be lonely and disconnected than cause pain to someone else.


(I'm waiting for Haddayr, a self-professed Extroverted Energy Vampire, to chime in....)

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, you definitely don't come across as fully introverted. I mean, I don't think a full-blown introvert would have been up there doing "Rockin' the Suburbs" . . .

Next time you come to WisCon we will have to hang out more.
used_songs: (elephant)

[personal profile] used_songs 2007-07-09 08:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe --- sort of controlling other people and their reactions through manipulating the situation?

[identity profile] kameron-hurley.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:56 pm (UTC)(link)
High school theater helped me out a lot. I do still often sit in bed and run through scenerios and beat myself up about social situations - how could I have been better, wittier, more interesting? I feel like I come across as stoic and boring; most of that is just me being terrified. And I still do a lot of self-hate talk after hours, particularly after big social occasions.

What theater did for me, though, is allow me to turn "on" somebody else (no, not in a wackjob sense; it's more like pulling on a cloak of protection) whenever I'm doing something like panels, or speaking in front of people. I really have to rev myself up for the occasion, and prepare for it, but I can pull it off pretty well when I'm prepared. And I do that by sort of watching myself from the outside; OK, now I am giving a panel! I am this witty, knowledgable person! Yaya me! And then I natter on and laugh loudly and then it's over and I'm so.fucking.exhausted.

It's also really good for me to hear about somebody else who honestly finds people - even people they like very much - physically exhausting. Sometimes it's all just too much for me. People tend to take energy away from me; I don't generally get any. Some of my best friends are big talkers, and I realize I tend to be drawn to talkers because they're more likely to fill the silence, and I can just listen, and I don't have to try and "be witty" or "on" all the time; I just listen, and it doesn't exhaust me as much.

I'm actually a lot worse as far as awkward socialness goes with aquaintences. With strangers, I can use the cloak thing, "Now I'm the Kameron who writes Brutal Women Fiction! I will crush you!" and with close friends, I can just be wacky and myself. It's those sort of in-between colleague people (like ya'll at the cons) that give me trouble. Cause I certainly *know* you all, and keep up with what you post, and sort of say hello socially, but there's no real shared intimacy or established boundaries or anything, and I think I do really badly in situations where I'm unsure of where I stand with people. It's this really awkward adrift sort of place.

It's easy to be "the writer," or "the feminist" or "my friend Kameron who I've known since we were 14,"or "panelist talking about epic fantasy" but it's a lot harder to act and react in a sort of undefined social script. I think that what really helps my social awkwardness is knowing *exactly* where I stand with people. It's like it gives me some idea of where all those nebulous boudaries are, and boundaries make me feel safe, however false a feelin that is.

[identity profile] tim-pratt.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Absolutely. Put me in a small group of close friends and I'm happy as can be, and even talk a lot. Put me in a social situation with strangers and I clam up and get antsy. Parties, though sometimes satisfying, are very emotionally draining to me, and I always need some alone time afterward (or time with my wife, who is "inside the fence," as it were, and doesn't trigger my need to be alone at all). I've always been that way. There are some situations where I consciously act against my natural inclinations, notably at Clarion and other writing workshops, where I make a point of putting myself forward and talking to people. That's led to some rewarding friendships, but yeah, the effort makes me tired. My perfect weekend involves staying home with my wife or hanging out with a couple of close friends. Definitely not parties or big group outings. And at parties, yeah, I tend to drink to make social interaction a little more pleasurable.

That said, I don't feel any shame about being that way. I've mostly been pretty comfortable with being an introvert, even hiding away and reading at social gatherings, to the occasional chagrin of my family.

[identity profile] sarah-prineas.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 08:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for sharing this, Dave.

Okay, so I'm not shy, but a raving extrovert, so it doesn't map my experience, or anything. But I'm married to an introvert--the panic attacks, the Paxil, the social awkwardness, the whole shy deal--so I know. What I know about shy people is that they take longer to reveal themselves to others--but that often the self, when revealed, is richer and deeper. My shy guy is quiet partly because he's taking things in and then thinking about them much more deeply and subtly than I, as an extrovert focused outward, can ever do (I love that about him). He gets information overload sometimes--he'll be talking to a colleague and focuses down on one interesting thing and starts thinking about it, loses the thread of the conversation, and goes into a panic attack. So he's developed strategies for dealing with these kinds of stressful interactions (like taking an hour to lie down at lunch every day, or not answering the phone during certain hours. And the Paxil helps a lot). For him, going to WisCon would be absolute hell (but then again, WisCon is not his people).

So I suppose that's me mapping indirectly.

And I totally get the "persona." My boss is an academic with this bluff, loud personality (I thought). He told me once he was shy, and I was like, "yeah, right." But he really is shy; he uses the pompous professor thing as both a persona and as a shield. There's a guy with a heart of gold behind it, but finding him is not easy. Took me about six months to figure it out.

Have you read Jed's blog? He's really good at knowing what his social limits are, and seems aware of his need to manage his social interactions so that he doesn't get too burned out.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah. See, my version of Supposed to Know Everything was Pretending to Know Everything, because not knowing was bad. I almost never asked questions.

I can totally relate to not wanting to inadvertently hurt others, too. Sometimes I can get so anxious about social situations that I'm rude without thinking.

[identity profile] haddayr.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm biting my tongue because he said he wanted to hear from other shy people. Also he and I talked about this for a LONG TIME on Saturday.

So, I forwarded this to my husband, who is quite possibly even more shy than Dave.

Quite definitely, actually.

But as a shy-o-phile, I sure WANT to pipe up.

But I will control myself!

[identity profile] rsheslin.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:06 pm (UTC)(link)
If I'm going to be completely honest, I think another reason that I've retreated as I've gotten older is because, looking back, I've done some really, really stupid things, and I hate putting myself out there and acting stupid. Again, it's easier to withdraw into myself. Although, I don't see it as a permanent withdrawal. I call it "cocooning" and see it more as an attempt to reduce outside distractions and noise so I can recenter and reconnect with who I am, which helps me reconnect with others on a calmer level without feeling so frayed and chaotic.

[identity profile] haddayr.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay, dammit other extroverts are posting, so I will, too.

I love shy people and I HATE it when folks treat you all like you have to be fixed.

You don't need to be fixed; you need to be celebrated.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
That's interesting, about the theater experience. I've never done drama, but I do sometimes feel like I have multiple faces, like "Sounds Smart Dave" and "Is Can Be Entertainer Now Dave." Both of which are, as you say, somewhat tiring to wear.

I do honestly find people exhausting. WisCon is my favorite thing ever, but afterwards I usually don't talk to anyone for a week or so, I am so drained.

The online vs. real-life question is a good one, too. I can have a correspondence going on with someone over email, then avoid them in person because I get so nervous about what to say.

Basically, yeah to everything you said.

[identity profile] haddayr.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, my extroversion often puts me in TOTAL control of the social situation around me. I think perhaps you and I are just using our different strengths to control things in different ways.

[identity profile] haddayr.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Exactly.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:12 pm (UTC)(link)
They don't call it social lubricant for nothing :-)

I do the reading thing too! Sometimes I'll just pick up a magazine or something and ignore the rest of the party. I think that's partly being a compulsive reader, partly a reaction to too much stimulus.

I don't know where the shame comes from. I guess part of it came from friends who didn't understand, and part of it was me saying to myself, "You're never going to be popular/meet girls/be happy if you don't change." And then I couldn't. Thank god I'm over that.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't mean I wanted to hear from shy folks to the exclusion of non-shy. Goofball.

[identity profile] haddayr.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:14 pm (UTC)(link)
But us extroverts tend to stomp all over the place and it's hard for shy kids to get in a word edgewise.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:16 pm (UTC)(link)
If we were in a crowded room that might be true. But we're not.

[identity profile] coalescent.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I mean, I don't think a full-blown introvert would have been up there doing "Rockin' the Suburbs" . . .

Well, yes. Although (a) I had spent six months psyching myself up, and (b) Chance would never have let me forget it if I'd wussed out. :)

And yes, it would be good to hang out more next time around. Do you do any other cons? (Or can you persuade your publisher to send you on a UK book tour?)

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