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snurri ([personal profile] snurri) wrote2007-07-09 03:11 pm

In Which I Have Posting Anxiety

Up until about 3rd grade I'm pretty sure I was incapable of being embarrassed. It's not that I was shameless, except in the literal sense; I didn't really have much concept of shame or its causes. I understood it as something connected to misbehavior, of course--I came from a Catholic family and went to Catholic school until 4th grade. There's nothing like a Catholic parent to make you feel like poor table manners will land you in hell.

The specifics of that first episode are uninteresting, but they were related to school, and this led to an association that lingers to this day; in my head, being mistaken was something to be ashamed of and to hide. It became very important to know all the answers, or at least more of them than everyone else. I don't know that I enjoyed learning back then. Mostly it was a way of controlling my environment just a little bit, of staving off that shame and embarrassment. When other kids flubbed answers in class, I cringed for the mortification they must feel. When it was clear that most of them didn't, I was bewildered. I was further bewildered when I tried to map my right answer/wrong answer thesis onto non-classroom time. On the playground or in the lunchroom, there didn't seem to be any right answers, or at least, there were exponentially more wrong ones. I got very tired of being wrong all the time. Eventually, I scaled back my interaction with most of the other kids to the bare minimum. It didn't help. Unless you're invisible there'll always be someone to call you out and tease you for being quiet and minding your business. I always reacted to it badly, and for that I got teased and called names.

By junior high I was an insomniac. I would lie in bed at night reviewing all the social missteps I'd committed that day, and construct scenarios for more potential embarrassments on the day following. As neurotic as I am now, the thirteen-year-old me was a time bomb.

This one of my theories as to how I became shy.

It's probably wrong. Like so many things, the real story is probably not what happened, but how I reacted to it. But until just a few years ago, I burned a lot of energy on that kind of self-analysis, because I believed there was something deeply wrong with me.

Clearly I was and am an introvert; groups of people, even people I love, tire me out. Put me in a room with one person I'm comfortable with and I'm perfectly content to talk deeply for hours, but people I don't know at all can be daunting to the point of paralysis. Women with whom I feel a certain level of romantic awkwardness can cause me to mumble, giggle nervously, and flee, not always in that order. (Wikipedia has an entry for something called Love-shyness, which is intriguing, depressing and suspect in equal measure. My own case isn't so severe as those described there, but some of it resonates.)

I deal with some social situations by never going near them. I avoid parties where I'm only going to know a couple of people. Invited out by people I don't know well, I make excuses. I protect myself by not stepping into situations where I'm going to feel out of control. I fear that all of this results in my seeming, at least at times, either mentally ill or snobbish or both.

All of which is problematic, but my believing it was something that needed fixing was even more so. I'd force myself into parties and other situations, visualizing a more relaxed, more confident Dave. What usually manifested was a sloppy drunk Dave. Instead of the witty and entertaining self I'd hope to conjure, I got a spectacular goof who sometimes didn't remember all of his shenanigans the next day. Now I can see this as an attempt at seizing control of otherwise overwhelming social situations. As a corollary, I also have a history of acting over-the-top weird while completely sober; while this might seem counter-intuitive for a shy person, in fact it's a quick and dirty way of setting the terms of your interactions, because everyone is forced to react to you, to give up a certain amount of space. When you're the most annoying person in the room (and even if you manage to be the most entertaining) it's unlikely that anyone's going to make a big effort to burst that intimacy bubble.

I confess that I still catch myself doing those things from time to time. Less so, though, because of something so simple it's banal. A few years ago I took the Myers-Briggs personality test online, and found myself classified as INFP. (I get that same result every time I take the test.) The "I" stands for Introverted, and in reading the description of the classification I not only recognized myself, I saw myself described independent of value judgments. Introverted and Shy were, in my mind, equivalent to Dork and Spaz, two of the many words I'd come to hate having attached to myself. Extroverted wasn't just the desirable state, it was the default state. But somehow, seeing that I was classifiable gave me permission to exist as I was. I'm not speaking to the scientific validity or usefulness of the test; I don't know a thing about that. Again, I'm talking about my reactions. In this case, my reaction was relief, and the feeling that the burden of fixing myself had fallen away. It was OK for me not to go to parties if I didn't feel like it. It was OK for me to spend the evening talking to my friends rather than stumbling over awkward introductions to people I was never going to see again.

Not that I'm always convinced there isn't something just wrong with me, even still. I've taken Paxil, partly for panic attacks but also for social anxiety and depression. It helped with all of those things, and sometimes I wonder if I should be on something like that all the time. (It's not an option right now, just to forestall those suggestions.) Maybe my shyness is more severe than some; maybe it's not.

The shitty paradox of being shy is that it doesn't mean I don't need social interaction. It's just that I need it in a different way, and it can be difficult to ask for it, or explain it. Especially to extroverts. Y'all outnumber us by quite a bit, and sometimes you can be a bit impatient with us. It's not easy for me to explain myself to someone who gets a charge out of going out and meet new people, to say that few prospects are more daunting to me. I have plenty of friends who are extroverts, and I love them dearly. Some of them get this stuff, or at least some of it, but I don't think it comes easily. And then some extroverts (not my friends) get it all too well. They treat shy people as prey; they give them the attention they need but cannot ask for, and then take advantage of them in various ways. I suspect that most shy folks have found themselves in this sort of situation at least once--a new friend or romantic partner, with all the qualities that you feel that you yourself lack, and yet who recognizes your specialness. At least until they get what they want from you, and leave you feeling foolish and worthless because you didn't see it coming. It's a hard lesson that only reinforces the introvert's tendency to withdraw and avoid.

It's difficult, too, to say something to an extrovert like "I'm lonely," because, aside from the vulnerability of a statement like that, it's something that invites prescription. "You should go out more!" "Call my friend who lives near you!" Those suggestions may be well-meant, but they come across as frustration, as suggestions that the person is lonely because they're doing something wrong. Sometimes, granted, the problem is in the phrasing of it. But sometimes I wish I could say something like that without feeling like I'm going to be perceived as whining. "I've been feeling a little bit lonely, but I want to make it clear that I am not suggesting that my loneliness is your problem, or something for which I am seeking a plan of attack. I'm simply stating this fact. You may go about your business."

Honestly, though, the vast majority of the time I do not envy extroverts. That way of interacting with people wears me out just thinking about it; I'm simply not wired for it, and if I was I'd be a different person. I feel like, too, spending time with myself is one really important way of giving myself headspace to write and create. I'm usually too tired and jumbled up after lots of socializing to be very productive.

There's something related to that, too, which seems odd to me: I'm not usually shy about my writing. I'm pretty comfortable giving readings, for instance, or talking to people about it. I'm guessing that this is because I've already set the terms for interaction, in a way, by putting the words together. Maybe this is similar to acting like a goofball in a crowded room, and I'm unconsciously using words to create distance; or maybe it's the opposite, that in the back of my mind I feel that fiction creates familiarity. I do still consider sharing my stories to be a somewhat intimate act, although clearly the hope is that many more folks than I actually know will read it. But of course writing, too, is tied up in issues of control for me; stories are the one part of my life where I have total control. And yet, unlike that 9-year-old me, I don't really want to know all the answers about my stories. I'm more interested in asking questions, nowadays.

I'm still dealing with all of this, but most of the time my life is good. I love my friends, and WisCon, the most social weekend of my year, is also my favorite. I have occasional exclamation points of socialization, and I spend a lot of the rest of my time alone, which is good. (I'm not saying there isn't space for someone else in at least some of that alone time, but the need isn't desperate.) I'm bad at letting people know when I need them, but I'm working on it.

Oh, and I no longer think that poor table manners will land me in hell.

But it's funny--even posting this makes me feel awkward. Note my retreat into formal language for most of this post. I'm not trying to speak for other shy people, or even to claim that I understand my own shyness. This is not a lament or a cry for help. But it's something that's been on my mind a lot lately, about being an introvert in an extroverted world, and how good I was (and still am) at echoing the negativity about introversion I got from that world, and even generating my own. I'd like to quit doing that.

I'd be curious to hear from other shy folks (and everyone else), whether any of this maps onto your own experiences, or not.

[identity profile] jamiam.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 10:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow, Dave. Just... wow.

I'll type some more in a bit. But in the meantime: thanks for writing this.

[identity profile] froggie-spawn.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
What does it say about me that liquor seems to relax me just enough so that I don't feel so self-conscious about meeting new people? Comments from anyone I've met while drunk at Wiscon? (which would be, of course, pretty much anytime after 3 PM on any given day)

[identity profile] ombriel.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 10:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I was agonizingly shy from elementary school through college. Then, in grad school, somehow through a combination of teaching undergrads and a brief bout of LARPing, I developed the ability to fake being confident/outgoing. Over time, the faking it part ceased to be fake. I stopped being shy in some circumstances, to the point now where new acquaintances are surprised when I describe myself that way.

Getting around the shyness was a very, very painful process, though. The night before the very first time I had to teach, I was physically ill. Now I vaguely look forward to being at the front of the class. Still, if you put me in a room where I’m new, but most everyone else knows each other, it’s still just as terrifying as it was years and years ago. If everyone is new to each other, I’m pretty comfortable.

Ah, introvertedness—-such an interesting internal dynamic.


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[identity profile] buymeaclue.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:01 pm (UTC)(link)
>Nuts; yes. At least, inconsistent, indecisive and randomly incommunicative. That's fair :-)

And really, it's just part of another one of those revelation. There's a reason that my absolute least favorite geek habit is people-hacking. I've attempted a little too much of it myself. :-p

>True; but I think that being a shy person often means not getting enough social interaction, because you don't know how to go after it, and so you tend to be more susceptible to someone charming who offers it up unasked. You may question it less because of your need.

Nodnod. I think that's fair.

[identity profile] froggie-spawn.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:04 pm (UTC)(link)
So I can't like you because of the snark? That is a perfectly legitimate reason to like someone!

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for reading it :-)

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
This is something I've heard before; someone who's forced, usually for professional reasons, to adopt an outgoing facade which eventually becomes second nature. An extrovert-exoskeleton, if you will. Fascinating.

[identity profile] barbmg.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm here in this little enclave partly because I'm too shy to have my post be seen in the general thread (it's funny/sad because it's true!) and partly because this is a great opportunity to appologize to Ms. Celia for being so socially awkward at Wiscon that I may have been rude. I am a huge social spaz, and totally cling to those I know best at the expense of those I really want to know better. I think the best times are when something happens spontaineously, like when Karen, Dave and I started singing songs from the Buffy musical, but damned if I know how to create those moments.

[identity profile] jamiam.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:16 pm (UTC)(link)
You must think I'm an extrovert, huh? Since you tend to see me on the internet and at WisCon. But the internet is where I go to socialize when I can't handle face-to-face interaction... Myers-Briggs treats me a bit like Niall, only, well, more so: I randomly hop between middling-to-strong I or E, depending on the test design. I suspect what's happening is that I'm slightly bipolar? The social phobia/introversion does seem tied to my depressive/hypomanic swings. Alas, I don't have good control over the switching mechanism: I was ramping up my anti-depressant during my back surgery, then ramping them down as fast as I could in advance of WisCon. And it still took me two weeks to come down from WisCon. Followed by a month of the crash-and-burn phase.

And yeah, the medication. Social phobia is actually one of my primary symptoms of depression--it's in fact what finally convinced me I needed clinical help. Five or six years ago, the social phobia got so bad so quickly, it became hard for me to mistake it for anything other than a pathological medical problem. Happily, unlike my concentration/focus problems, the social phobia responded almost immediately to the medication: within a week I could walk around campus comfortably; within two weeks I was making eye contact with my advisor. I hadn't made eye contact with the man for two years, but I didn't realize it until I could suddenly do it again.

These days social phobia is one of the few early warning signals I have when I'm starting a slide. I do get good results from forcing myself to go to parties I'd rather avoid, or even just meeting friends for coffee and talking for an afternoon. Sometimes it's enough to take a walk in the sun, or ea more fruit. But I think there's a seasonal element to my mood swings, so sometimes I just need to up my meds.

Back in middle school, I also viewed my extreme anti-social tendencies as something that needed to be corrected. And I know about overcompensating... er, did you see the navel-linty thing on my blog the other week? Where I was talking about how I was afraid people at WisCon would "see me as I really am"? Well, never mind--I private-locked that particular entry, and I think I'm pretty much done with that little piece of introspective fun. Anyway. But then there's the alcohol... I've kind of stopped drinking almost entirely because can actually feel my inhibitions slipping away somewhere between drinks number two and three. Well, and these days I have the added incentive of POUNDING MIGRAINES, too. But I do hate losing control.

How much of this is about control, I wonder?

And, oh my gosh. I know about analyzing stuff in the middle of the night. Actually... um. I have these weird twinges at random times--driving a car, say, or shopping for groceries--in which I'll suddenly twitch and cuss at myself because of something stupid I did ten years ago. Twenty years ago. It really bothers my husband when it happens.

It's okay if you think I'm insane regarding that last bit.

[identity profile] bondgwendabond.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Um, yeah. You and I are both introverts in extrovert clothing. (Somewhat.)

[identity profile] pnew8.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I am introverted. Shy. Yes, it appeared my childhood, but it also, imho, comes from a hypersensitivity to social interactions. It doesn't take much to overwhelm me. I am constantly second guessing the people around me. I dislike being in groups of more than 2 or 3 people. I'm always afraid of saying something that will be taken the wrong way, even around my husband.

I've learned a few things to pretend it isn't so. Depending upon my mood I can interact with others well. I can do amazing things at times. And, because I like it when I do well in social situations, I continue to do things that I exceed my comfort level.

[identity profile] barbmg.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)
We certainly share the dislike of the phone. Luckily our boys don't, so they keep those lines of communication open!

[identity profile] ombriel.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
The kicker is that being around people for a long period of time is still quite draining, regardless if the shyness kicks in or not!

Also - it seems like there's a connection between people who have (often unrealistically) high expectations for themselves and self-doubt that manifests as shyness/unsureness around other people. I think those who have, for whatever reason, an internal 'critiquer' voice/perfectionist streak have a greater tendency towards shyness. If one can get that voice to shut up somehow (for instance as a result of a series of successes in social circumstances, forced or otherwise!), maybe shyness recedes. Just a theory.

[identity profile] jamiam.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I mean, I don't think a full-blown introvert would have been up there doing "Rockin' the Suburbs" . . .

Which was brilliant. In case there was any question.

(And where is my YouTube version? Dammit.)

[identity profile] jamiam.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Ooo. Whereas I actually become more of an extrovert because I'm not comfortable. It's almost like a defense mechanism.

Then again, you don't see me getting anywhere near the dance floor, either. So it's very specialized, non-dancing, non-singing sort of extroversion?

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I mostly assumed you were like me, actually--a part-time extrovert, or something similar.

Sometimes, I'll grant, it's good for me to force myself out and to do something I'm not looking forward to. This is usually when my shyness and my depressive tendencies get tangled up and I can't tell the difference anymore. Then, usually, it's good just to get out and go for a walk, or something. And luckily here in the Twin Cities I do have friends around who will call me up and schedule things, which is really good for me.

But, yes; my panic attack, for instance, was a time when I didn't want to touch, talk to, or make eye contact with anyone around me. Considering that I was tending bar at the time, it was a tough night.

I do NOT think you're insane regarding the twenty-year-old remorse. I do that too--some of them are about thirty years old by now--and I suppose I thought I was the only one :-) Mostly it happens when I'm down, but it'll just hit me randomly sometimes, too. Mostly they don't carry the charge they used to, happily, but it's a weird neurotic thing that you'd think I'd be over by now.

[identity profile] lonfiction.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for posting this, Dave. I used to have a real problem with the shyness too, but it's also kind of dissipated over the years. The "I" in my INTP is usually quite high. I used to have the phone sweats and the new people meeting issues and I can't really say they are all gone. I once was so overwhelmed by my fear of public speaking (and only in front of 5, but it was a qualification prove your knowledge board type of situation) that it changed the course of my career. It was the first time just being smart/knowing things wasn't enough to succeed, and because I couldn't present them--could hardly speak at all for the fearful chaos in my head--I failed at something important that I really wanted.

It devestated me, to tell you the truth, and the wound licking went on for some time. Eventually, though I felt like I needed to do something about it or I'd be stuck failing the rest of my life when it came down to social anxiety. I decided to apply the whole INTP strength of "systematizing knowledge" and began forcing myself to study and attack my social anxieties in an almost scientifically experimental fashion. Every year since then I've been kicking it up a notch and forcing myself to get comfortable and feel the control, and the funny thing is, now it's fun.

OR at least when I screw up (I was asked to be emcee at my boss's boss's retirement last month and somehow made the gaff of calling the preacher to the other podium for the benediction and then trying to breeze right along with the next part without letting him give it...heh) I know that it just ain't that bad and more often than not, I'm the worst critic of my social inabilities. The self-criticism and insecurity haven't stopped, but I can deal with them when they arise and overcome without the embarrassment sensation overwhelming me.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:35 pm (UTC)(link)
That was a wonderful moment. I think of it every time I hear one of those songs.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Hm. That could be true, I guess. I certainly have always had unrealistic expectations for myself, for whatever reason.

[identity profile] barbmg.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, and I meant to thank you for this wonderful post, Dave. In answer to the question of this mapping my experiences I would say: Yes, yes, and hell yes.

[identity profile] jamiam.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, in the slightly-less-navel-linty drawer: thanks for making the critical comments about what extroverts tell introverts that is very specifically not helpful. Reading through your post gave me a lot of sympathy pains, but still... I could totally see myself telling you to go out more if you're lonely. I wouldn't realize how totally unhelpful--even harmful--that sort of unsolicited advice is unless it's been pointed out.

I wish I knew how to say things like "I'm lonely" without having everyone on the planet assume it's a bid for sympathy. Even after you've qualified it out the yin/yang, it's still hitting my "must sympathize and provide helpful advice NOW!" funny bone reflex...

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I remember feeling bad at WisCon because I invited you to dinner and then we ended up with a huge group; I could tell you weren't that comfortable.

I know what you mean about fearing saying things that will be taken the wrong way. I've had to train myself out of the fear that saying just one stupid thing will make people want to stop being my friend. That's a tough one.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:44 pm (UTC)(link)
That sounds really tough, Lon. I'm glad that you made it through and worked all of that out for yourself.

I did something a little bit similar, I think, when I forced myself to seek out chances to read my fiction in front of groups. I felt that it was important to do that in order to help my writing career, so I forced myself to do it and to get better at it. Now those situations don't feel so out of control as they once did, and I actually enjoy doing it.

Anyway; good for you, man.

[identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you, Barb. I'm glad it struck home for you.

[identity profile] jamiam.livejournal.com 2007-07-09 11:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Some of my best friends are big talkers, and I realize I tend to be drawn to talkers because they're more likely to fill the silence, and I can just listen, and I don't have to try and "be witty" or "on" all the time

This is why I so love hanging with Ben at WisCon. He's like a mobile talking break room.

(you are rather wackier in person than I expected. :))

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