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Up until about 3rd grade I'm pretty sure I was incapable of being embarrassed. It's not that I was shameless, except in the literal sense; I didn't really have much concept of shame or its causes. I understood it as something connected to misbehavior, of course--I came from a Catholic family and went to Catholic school until 4th grade. There's nothing like a Catholic parent to make you feel like poor table manners will land you in hell.

The specifics of that first episode are uninteresting, but they were related to school, and this led to an association that lingers to this day; in my head, being mistaken was something to be ashamed of and to hide. It became very important to know all the answers, or at least more of them than everyone else. I don't know that I enjoyed learning back then. Mostly it was a way of controlling my environment just a little bit, of staving off that shame and embarrassment. When other kids flubbed answers in class, I cringed for the mortification they must feel. When it was clear that most of them didn't, I was bewildered. I was further bewildered when I tried to map my right answer/wrong answer thesis onto non-classroom time. On the playground or in the lunchroom, there didn't seem to be any right answers, or at least, there were exponentially more wrong ones. I got very tired of being wrong all the time. Eventually, I scaled back my interaction with most of the other kids to the bare minimum. It didn't help. Unless you're invisible there'll always be someone to call you out and tease you for being quiet and minding your business. I always reacted to it badly, and for that I got teased and called names.

By junior high I was an insomniac. I would lie in bed at night reviewing all the social missteps I'd committed that day, and construct scenarios for more potential embarrassments on the day following. As neurotic as I am now, the thirteen-year-old me was a time bomb.

This one of my theories as to how I became shy.

It's probably wrong. Like so many things, the real story is probably not what happened, but how I reacted to it. But until just a few years ago, I burned a lot of energy on that kind of self-analysis, because I believed there was something deeply wrong with me.

Clearly I was and am an introvert; groups of people, even people I love, tire me out. Put me in a room with one person I'm comfortable with and I'm perfectly content to talk deeply for hours, but people I don't know at all can be daunting to the point of paralysis. Women with whom I feel a certain level of romantic awkwardness can cause me to mumble, giggle nervously, and flee, not always in that order. (Wikipedia has an entry for something called Love-shyness, which is intriguing, depressing and suspect in equal measure. My own case isn't so severe as those described there, but some of it resonates.)

I deal with some social situations by never going near them. I avoid parties where I'm only going to know a couple of people. Invited out by people I don't know well, I make excuses. I protect myself by not stepping into situations where I'm going to feel out of control. I fear that all of this results in my seeming, at least at times, either mentally ill or snobbish or both.

All of which is problematic, but my believing it was something that needed fixing was even more so. I'd force myself into parties and other situations, visualizing a more relaxed, more confident Dave. What usually manifested was a sloppy drunk Dave. Instead of the witty and entertaining self I'd hope to conjure, I got a spectacular goof who sometimes didn't remember all of his shenanigans the next day. Now I can see this as an attempt at seizing control of otherwise overwhelming social situations. As a corollary, I also have a history of acting over-the-top weird while completely sober; while this might seem counter-intuitive for a shy person, in fact it's a quick and dirty way of setting the terms of your interactions, because everyone is forced to react to you, to give up a certain amount of space. When you're the most annoying person in the room (and even if you manage to be the most entertaining) it's unlikely that anyone's going to make a big effort to burst that intimacy bubble.

I confess that I still catch myself doing those things from time to time. Less so, though, because of something so simple it's banal. A few years ago I took the Myers-Briggs personality test online, and found myself classified as INFP. (I get that same result every time I take the test.) The "I" stands for Introverted, and in reading the description of the classification I not only recognized myself, I saw myself described independent of value judgments. Introverted and Shy were, in my mind, equivalent to Dork and Spaz, two of the many words I'd come to hate having attached to myself. Extroverted wasn't just the desirable state, it was the default state. But somehow, seeing that I was classifiable gave me permission to exist as I was. I'm not speaking to the scientific validity or usefulness of the test; I don't know a thing about that. Again, I'm talking about my reactions. In this case, my reaction was relief, and the feeling that the burden of fixing myself had fallen away. It was OK for me not to go to parties if I didn't feel like it. It was OK for me to spend the evening talking to my friends rather than stumbling over awkward introductions to people I was never going to see again.

Not that I'm always convinced there isn't something just wrong with me, even still. I've taken Paxil, partly for panic attacks but also for social anxiety and depression. It helped with all of those things, and sometimes I wonder if I should be on something like that all the time. (It's not an option right now, just to forestall those suggestions.) Maybe my shyness is more severe than some; maybe it's not.

The shitty paradox of being shy is that it doesn't mean I don't need social interaction. It's just that I need it in a different way, and it can be difficult to ask for it, or explain it. Especially to extroverts. Y'all outnumber us by quite a bit, and sometimes you can be a bit impatient with us. It's not easy for me to explain myself to someone who gets a charge out of going out and meet new people, to say that few prospects are more daunting to me. I have plenty of friends who are extroverts, and I love them dearly. Some of them get this stuff, or at least some of it, but I don't think it comes easily. And then some extroverts (not my friends) get it all too well. They treat shy people as prey; they give them the attention they need but cannot ask for, and then take advantage of them in various ways. I suspect that most shy folks have found themselves in this sort of situation at least once--a new friend or romantic partner, with all the qualities that you feel that you yourself lack, and yet who recognizes your specialness. At least until they get what they want from you, and leave you feeling foolish and worthless because you didn't see it coming. It's a hard lesson that only reinforces the introvert's tendency to withdraw and avoid.

It's difficult, too, to say something to an extrovert like "I'm lonely," because, aside from the vulnerability of a statement like that, it's something that invites prescription. "You should go out more!" "Call my friend who lives near you!" Those suggestions may be well-meant, but they come across as frustration, as suggestions that the person is lonely because they're doing something wrong. Sometimes, granted, the problem is in the phrasing of it. But sometimes I wish I could say something like that without feeling like I'm going to be perceived as whining. "I've been feeling a little bit lonely, but I want to make it clear that I am not suggesting that my loneliness is your problem, or something for which I am seeking a plan of attack. I'm simply stating this fact. You may go about your business."

Honestly, though, the vast majority of the time I do not envy extroverts. That way of interacting with people wears me out just thinking about it; I'm simply not wired for it, and if I was I'd be a different person. I feel like, too, spending time with myself is one really important way of giving myself headspace to write and create. I'm usually too tired and jumbled up after lots of socializing to be very productive.

There's something related to that, too, which seems odd to me: I'm not usually shy about my writing. I'm pretty comfortable giving readings, for instance, or talking to people about it. I'm guessing that this is because I've already set the terms for interaction, in a way, by putting the words together. Maybe this is similar to acting like a goofball in a crowded room, and I'm unconsciously using words to create distance; or maybe it's the opposite, that in the back of my mind I feel that fiction creates familiarity. I do still consider sharing my stories to be a somewhat intimate act, although clearly the hope is that many more folks than I actually know will read it. But of course writing, too, is tied up in issues of control for me; stories are the one part of my life where I have total control. And yet, unlike that 9-year-old me, I don't really want to know all the answers about my stories. I'm more interested in asking questions, nowadays.

I'm still dealing with all of this, but most of the time my life is good. I love my friends, and WisCon, the most social weekend of my year, is also my favorite. I have occasional exclamation points of socialization, and I spend a lot of the rest of my time alone, which is good. (I'm not saying there isn't space for someone else in at least some of that alone time, but the need isn't desperate.) I'm bad at letting people know when I need them, but I'm working on it.

Oh, and I no longer think that poor table manners will land me in hell.

But it's funny--even posting this makes me feel awkward. Note my retreat into formal language for most of this post. I'm not trying to speak for other shy people, or even to claim that I understand my own shyness. This is not a lament or a cry for help. But it's something that's been on my mind a lot lately, about being an introvert in an extroverted world, and how good I was (and still am) at echoing the negativity about introversion I got from that world, and even generating my own. I'd like to quit doing that.

I'd be curious to hear from other shy folks (and everyone else), whether any of this maps onto your own experiences, or not.
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(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 08:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlundberg.livejournal.com
Ditto all of this, Dave. When I was a kid, I was always told -- by my parents, other relatives, teachers -- that I wouldn't get any fulfilling experiences out of life if I didn't "put myself out there," with the implication that there was something inherently wrong with me. My official "blossoming" (as my mom calls it) was in high school when I was a band geek, and was mostly because I was interacting with the same group of people every single day, and we were like a big family. If there were parties, I tended to stay pretty quiet and listen to people, but I also got good at faking extroversion (mostly at social events); however, it involved so much physical effort that I would need to lie down in a room by myself with the lights off in order to recover. This still happens today.

And, like you, I tend to think of WisCon as my big social weekend of the year, but the 2006 con was so big and full of so many people that I couldn't help turtling. At the Ratbastards Karaoke Party, I was reduced to near-silence (the move to the bigger room really messed with my head); Tim Pratt came up at some point and tried to start a conversation, but I couldn't utter much more than "'sup," and felt really bad afterward. The reading that we did at the coffeeshop that weekend made me want to run and hide because it had attracted so many people.

And I'm assuming you've read "Caring for Your Introvert" by Jonathan Rauch, but if not, here's the link.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Oh, yeah, I got the "keeps to himself too much" thing from teachers all the time. Very, very frustrating.

I'd not read that essay before; thanks for the link!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 12:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-denham.livejournal.com
I'm a very similar personality type - INFJ - though the first time I was tested I was INFP, so I think the P/J thing is somewhat flexible for me.

I was painfully shy and bookwormish as a child in elementary school and felt extremely isolated. I was religious at that time, and often wished I was dead because then I would be with God and everything would be ok.

I was never shy singing in front of people, though, and fell in love with acting sometime about age 12 (about the same time I gave up on religion, though I don't know that the two things had anything to do with each other). Playing a part gave me a chance to be someone else besides my usual, awkward self. I had lines to read so I didn't have to try to worry about sounding like an idiot.

As I see it, INFP/J's are introverts who really need people and crave those deep friendships, not the superficial hanging out with random people that much social interaction involves. But I'm never going to make those sorts of friends by staying home all the time.

When I moved to Indianapolis 12 years ago to be with my husband (and best friend), I left behind a few very close friends. Sad to say, I haven't made any close friends since moving here. This is partially due to my nature and partially due to my crazy work schedule. Sure, I have people I am friendly with and can talk with about certain things, but besides my husband I don't have anyone locally I could call up on a whim and discuss the deep, dark things at the core of my being. Perhaps being an introvert means you expect too much of friends; I'm not sure.

I have been making more of an effort to go out into social situations lately because I would like to have close friends again, and I'm not getting any younger. I've gotten pretty good at going to a group thing and making conversation and so forth, but am baffled by how to get really close to another person.

So this was a long and rambling reply from a person you don't really know, but your post really resonated with a lot of my own feelings.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Hi Ellen:

I definitely think it gets harder to make friends, especially close ones, as we get older. It's frustrating.

Thanks for commenting!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bondgwendabond.livejournal.com
So I've never taken Myers-Briggs, but I figured I would since you mentioned it here. I'm apparently INFJ, and, yeah, there was a lot I recognized in the description. Spooky!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
I know, right? I understand that it's sort of controversial, especially in the way that it's applied to workplace interactions--but on the surface, at least, it has me pretty well pegged.

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Date: 2007-07-10 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ktsparrow.livejournal.com
INFP represent! Which is to say, me too. I loved this--I don't think about my shyness much except with panic, so it's lovely to hear some thoughts that read very true and real. It made me think about being little and having adults always saying I was shy, and then knowing there was something wrong inside of me and really not knowing how to communicate with anyone because I was already identifiably odd.

These days I'm pretty good when I'm around people I know, but am soon to be moving and no one seems to understand why this freaks me out in the way it does.

Almost everyone I've ever met, once we're friends, told me how snotty they thought I was. I think that's the 'what shy girl's look like' from the outside. I wonder if there's a different equivalent for boys, or if it's the same?

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Yes; I was talking to someone last night about how we were introduced to the introvert/extrovert distinction very early on in school. I think it was meant to tell the shy kids it was OK, but it felt sort of like I'd been diagnosed with something benign but chronic, too.

I totally understand why moving would freak you out. It freaks me out, because I never know if I'm actually going to be up to meeting anyone new, something which I think only gets harder as we get older.

I'm not sure if people think of me as snotty--standoffish, probably. I've been told that I act like I'm smarter than everyone else, which is another bad one.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarahgoss.livejournal.com
Hi, I found your link through Haddayr! Just wanted to chime in and say this post reminds me very much of myself (always classified as an INFP every time I've taken the Myers-Briggs, too, by the way, and have taken Paxil). I had insomnia and an ulcer when I was a kid, largely I believe over anxieties related to school and having to be around other people in masses; the ulcer developed the summer before I started junior high. I used to make lists of people (other kids at school) in front of whom I had never had a humiliating experience, and I thought of those as my "friends." Most of them I had never spoken to. But if I had never been embarrassed in front of them, or been made fun of by them, they sort of counted as friends. There was more. I created a similar post to this one on my own...well, I don't know if it was for the same exact reasons. I was having extreme anxiety about the forwardness of creating any sort of space where other people would read my thoughts, and the lack of control over their reactions to me that would ensue. I have developed a lot of defense mechanisms in response to my shyness--so many now that I feel like my shyness is more or less completely masked in public. But the cost of it is that I am exhausted all the time from the effort it takes me to present this face to the world. Well, I should shut up now. I enjoyed reading this post.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Hi Sarah: thanks for stopping by :-)

Junior high was one of the hardest times for me, as well. The mood swings of puberty really don't mix well with feeling socially awkward to begin with, and having everything in flux.

I know what you mean, too, about masking one's shyness, and how exhausting that can be. Most recently I found myself doing this at my sister's wedding, where I was part of the wedding party. That's a lot of work for an introvert :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yswilce.livejournal.com
You and me, both, Dave--and everyone else who commented, too! I hate sitting home alone, but I hate going out and meeting people. Alas, the contradiction can be pretty harsh. All I can say is thank heavens for livejournals, and blogs, and email--they allow one to hide, lurk, and connect, all at the same time. It helps a little, I think. And I totally agree that it's harder to make friends as we get older--people's lives become much more fixed and they have less time for new people/interests. Plus, when one's own interests are rather weird and marginal to begin with--well--it's a recipe for Alone. And the writing life is by stereotype and actuality a lonely one--so--....I think I'd better stop here, I'm bumming myself out just thinking about all this...Anyway, Dave--J & I are your friends and here if you need us!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Thanks, Ysa; and right back atcha! (Do you have any plans to tour Flora up here at all?)

You're right about the Internet. Blogs are especially nice, because I can just put something out there without feeling too much anxiety over whether people are reading it or how they're reacting to it--and on the other side of it, reading other folks' blogs gives me a good feeling, to know what they're up to and all. But, yes to all you say about making friends. This is why I love my Spec Fic friends so much. WisCon is one of my best places for meeting new folks.

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(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 04:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jonhansen.livejournal.com
Dave, thanks for sharing. I haven't taken a Myers-Briggs in quite a while, but the last time I did, I was INTP.

I've created myself an outgoing professional persona that I use for library instruction sessions. I've been told by some of my fellow instructors that I'm funny, outgoing, interesting, and can roll with the punches pretty well (when the database doesn't connect, when someone asks an off-the-wall question, etc.). In short, it's a good persona. It used to be that I'd get nervous before these things three days out. Couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, digestive problems, etc. But one semester I had to do so many of them, one or two a day for a week and a half, that eventually the fear burned itself away and all that was left was not Jon the High Schooler who worries about looking like an idiot in front of college kids, but JON THE LIBRARIAN, who'll be funny and helpful but in the end, doesn't particularly give a shit if you pay attention to his presentation, because it's your grade, not mine. Just don't snore, dammit, or I'll wing you with a book.

When I started my first library gig and realized I would have to do these things, one of my coworkers told me about her father, who was an English professor who'd taught for thirty years and loved it, but at the beginning of every semester, before the first class of the year, he'd have to go to the bathroom and hurl his guts out. At least I never reached that point.

Oh, and I've got a couple of things I did back in middle school that I mentally drag out on occasion, look at, and kick myself hard for doing. Not like hurting someone, but just faux pas of a galactic scale.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
[livejournal.com profile] ombriel was talking about this, too--what I called an "extrovert-exoskeleton." It seems to be a common approach for introverts in jobs where they can't avoid doing some presentations/public speaking/what have you. I wonder if I have one for readings but I just don't really think about it that way.

(no subject)

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Hi, ISTJ here

Date: 2007-07-10 07:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] garyomaha.livejournal.com
Hi Dave, referred by [livejournal.com profile] jaylake.

I wouldn't call myself "shy' but I far, far prefer being by myself or perhaps in the company of one or a few than being in a party. The word "party" often makes me make a face. See, I have a mild hearing loss, and if there's much noise at all, I can't hear someone speaking to me. A party is a perfect place to have to smile and nod and try to remain pleasant, all the time having NO FREAKING IDEA what's being said.

Now, add to that the fact that I personally prefer quieter, lighter music. Anything from pop to light rock to classical. Most of which isn't party music. So imagine adding that to the noise mix. By that point, I have no clue what anyone is saying to me, about me, or near me. I get no kick from standing around and smiling.

Now, add to that the fact that I rarely drink. Tried it, but as the song goes, "I get no kick from champagne." So, drinking is no reason for me to enjoy a party. And if that's what most of the people around me are doing, I'll feel even more out of place.

(Luckily, the art of **smoking** has generally fallen by the wayside and is relegated to the outdoors now, so my final Party Dislike is somewhat rare these days. However -- at least where I live -- one can still smoke in clubs and taverns, which is where some party groups seem to gravitate to. Add smoking to the mix and I am out of there. Can't stand it, period.)

So that's my situation. If I can hear those I'm with -- generally meaning a very small group -- I'm okay with it. Anything noisier and I feel Totally Out Of Place and wish I'd be somewhere else. Sadly, that can happen even in a restaurant with a group ("party") for a birthday.

I've been onstage and used to be on the radio -- that doesn't bother me much at all. I can speak in front of a crowd. I guess it's the getting-lost-in-the-noise that repels me the most.

Just give me a good book and/or some good music and my puppydog. I'm perfectly happy at home!

Thanks for sharing with us and I hope you don't mind my sharing right back.

Re: Hi, ISTJ here

Date: 2007-07-10 08:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Hi Gary: thanks for sharing, and reading. I, too, tend to prefer low-key social engagements. On the other hand, I occasionally like to blow out my eardrums (with earplugs, natch) in a mosh pit, so there is that. Although that can be a fairly anonymous activity, too :-)

For the most part, books, music, and dogs are about my speed.

Oopsie

Date: 2007-07-10 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] garyomaha.livejournal.com
Pardon me, that referral was from [livejournal.com profile] matthewsrotundo not [livejournal.com profile] jaylake. Perhaps that was a sort of Freudian slip on my part, because Jay is one of the most extroverted persons I know!

Re: Oopsie

Date: 2007-07-10 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Heh -- I wondered! Thanks for clearing that up.

>Jay is one of the most extroverted persons I know!

You and me both!

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 09:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cija.livejournal.com
I'd be curious to hear from other shy folks (and everyone else), whether any of this maps onto your own experiences, or not.

I would tell you, but I'm too shy!

-- I think it's true that, as people sometimes say, shyness and social phobia and introversion are actually three distinct-ish things, but since I have all of them, knowing this is not a great help to me.

The way I deal with these issues online is to be tiresomely self-deprecating about it in the hopes that people will assume I am obviously kidding and not actually that bad, and this works pretty well.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-10 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Yeah, I guess I should have talked about shyness and introversion not being the same thing, but they're tangled up in me, so I associate them.

Self-deprecation is a strategy I use all the time, too.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-11 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] haddayr.livejournal.com
I know you will never believe this, but I was shy as a kid. Painfully shy..

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-11 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] haddayr.livejournal.com
Although I recently came across an old report card from 1st grade which said I kept talking to the other kids instead of doing my work.

So perhaps it was situational shyness that developed after being teased? I don't know.

I will say this: although I now get a charge out of going to parties where I know no one, I remember the horrifying dread I used to feel if I didn't know nearly everyone at a party. I remember feeling like I couldn't breathe when I had to talk to someone in a work situation whom I didn't know or like very much. It's all still very vivid in my memory.

(no subject)

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(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-12 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] calico-reaction.livejournal.com
Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I linked to your post in my personal LJ, [livejournal.com profile] devilwrites. I think your post will resonate with quite a few people I know, so I wanted to make sure they got a chance to read it. I hope you don't mind. :)

--Shara

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-12 01:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Hi, Shara. I don't mind at all; link away, and thanks! :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-12 09:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] betsywhitt.livejournal.com
Hey, found you via [livejournal.com profile] devilwrites and her link - as an introvert who has learned to play "the extrovert game", I've had a lot of people protest when I mention that I am, in fact, an introvert. I've functioned for large portions of my life without any close friends - or at least people who I considered close friends, people who knew the real me. And it gets harder and harder as life goes on, which stinks because it never was easy to start with.

I think the biggest challenge for me is the fact that there are people out there who consider me their close friend and I just don't see it. I don't particularly think they'd notice if I was there or not, because I really only know them from pleasantries exchanged in the context of a group of six or seven people standing around chatting for a few minutes - but they do miss me. I feel guilty sometimes for not really missing them in turn. I don't feel like I really know them, because there's very little depth. So unless there's a relatively quick connection on a deeper level, there's little chance that I'll think of a person as being willing to be "real friends" with me. I don't do idle chit-chat very well. There's no point.

My trouble early on wasn't necessarily that I felt that I always had to be right - it was that I usually *was* right. Not because I had to prove them all wrong or prove my competence, but because I did what was assigned. That's a real fast way to get branded as a smarty-pants in the early grades.

Eventually, completely understimulated by school work, I took to reading all the time - before class, during class, walking in the halls between classes, after school. I could whip through a 300 page hardback in a day at school and still remember how to conjugate -ir verbs in Spanish. Reading served as that social barrier for me - if I was always reading then a) I never bothered anyone, b) they seldom bothered me, and c) I was seen as a sort of deviant, which has a certain "cool" factor. After all, as far as anyone could tell, I wasn't paying any attention in class, and only delinquents do that, right?

So for a long time, my reclusive tendencies were a gun-shy reaction to the fact that when I *was* myself in company, it usually ended up with people disliking me. And I still have lingering misgivings about being my full, true self in company because I got burned so often early on (no thanks to my own attitude, which wasn't exactly forgivable all the time, I'll freely admit).

The perception that I'm extroverted has a lot to do with the fact that I can be very outgoing in certain situations and for me, at least, the outgoing/shy continuum is not the same as the extrovert/introvert one. I'm not afraid to interact with people as a rule. I'm wary about certain aspects because I've flubbed up so famously in the past that I watch my footing now, as it were, but if I'm introduced to someone I don't break out in cold sweats trying to think of the right things to say. However, I have no desire to go across the room and voluntarily interact with someone I've never met before. I'm not afraid to do it, but it holds absolutely no appeal for me. It's like having a plate of onion rings in front of me: there's nothing wrong with them for other people, I'm not allergic to them and they won't hurt me, and sometimes it might be nice to have one or two, but under normal circumstances I'll pass, thanks.

I can last for about an hour in a large, milling group of people if I know a fair percentage of them. Fifteen minutes if they're all strangers. With a small group of friends (4-12, depending on the group) I can be "extroverted" (haha) for about five hours, and then I need a good hour of reading or a long walk with the husband to recharge. I saw someone mention above that the spouse now counts as "inside the fence", and doesn't drain energy - that's definitely true in my case. Of course, he rides the intro/extro line, so he understands my aversion to interpersonal interaction better than most.

And this is getting really long, so I'll move along now... Thanks for posting your thoughts - believe me, I know how hard that can be.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-12 11:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
Thanks for commenting; yeah, others have pointed out that outgoing/shy is on a different axis than extrovert/introvert.

I think I sometimes do see new people whom I wish I could talk to, but 99% of the time it just ain't gonna happen.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] devilwrites.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-07-18 03:28 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-13 12:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madam-silvertip.livejournal.com
I always get INTJ, which seems to imply in the profile that one is shy because one doesn't care about people versus ideas. I very much resent that--my way of relating to others strikes me as more INFJ, though it's probably true that I am INTJ because I systematize problems rather than deal with them by sharing and hugging and loving etc.

It's so true that shy people do NOT need less interaction, just a different kind of interaction. We are often people who interact in a way different than the culture expects. Whether that is because of shyness or causes it, I do not know. It's a huge topic. In some ways it is a good thing that science is studying it, but in another, I wonder if such labels as Autistic Spectrum Disorder don't do more harm than good by medicalizing "Deviant" behavior (and medicalizing normal behavior for shy people as deviant, a sign of brain damage, etc.).

(no subject)

Date: 2007-07-13 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com
It's an interesting phenomenon, the way that defining and studying a thing can almost seem to create it, and create positive or negative associations for it. I hadn't heard that there were medical theories postulating shyness as resulting from brain damage, though--do you have any links?

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] madam-silvertip.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-07-13 01:52 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] snurri.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-07-13 01:58 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] madam-silvertip.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-07-13 02:01 am (UTC) - Expand

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